A Cult?
Every now and then the question comes up....Are Tom Brown and
the Tracker School a cult??
On this page is the text
of a discussion that took place on this topic on the Tracker School discussion
group on the Internet in 2001. This discussion group is open to anyone,
therefore the discussion was open to anyone who cared to look.
The discussion inevitably led into Tom's personality and
habits, the fees charged for the classes, and other related
topics. The entire discussion is included here, as it all grew out of the cult topic, and
in a way it's all interrelated.
15083
Greetings fellow members of the Tracker community.
I have been wondering for a very long time now if any of you feel as
I do that some aspects of the Tracker school are cult like. I've done
a paper on cults and apparently, Tom Brown's survival school seems to
fit the bill.
Consider these facts:
A cult recruits people that are often searching for alternative ways
to connect to spirit. Is there no more alternative way than to claim
that graduates of the school are "shamans"? Go to a regular Indian
tribe and tell them you would like to become an Elder/Shaman. They
will laugh right at you. In fact, many if not all of the people
coming to the school are said to be searching, and Tom reinforces
that "black sheep" attitude of how you never truly fit in. He magnifies the need for self-importance that people have individually.
Thus, the need to call his students "shamans", when in fact it takes
many years to become one, and cannot be done in an intensive week.
Also, a cult distinguishes itself by exploiting its members.
Financial exploitation is not something rare at the Tracker school.
Look at the astronomical prices for the given courses. $700-$800.
Enlightenment doesn't come cheap. You're given a nice diploma with
your name on it. But let's not forget that you are now permitted to
bear the title of "Shaman". Alas, you can't tell anyone about it,
hence raising a wall of secrecy between members and non-members of
the cult.
Ever notice that when you're tired and exhausted at the end of the
week, Tom "offers" to let you join up for further classes that are
held the coming week? Is a person's critical sense not weakened after
a long and, at often times, cold week sleeping outside in a tent? A
cult is recognized for consciously weakening it's adherents through
physical pressures, making them thus malleable and open to suggestion.
In addition, a cult uses mental manipulation to control it's adepts.
Some of these ways are: A vocabulary personally customized for the
cult. For example, you have words like "Sacred Silence", "Inner
Vision", "Veilwalking".
It bears importance to mention that a cult also exhibits paranoid
behavior. The outside world is often seen as the enemy. And people
are encouraged to adopt an "Us vs. Them" attitude. An example of this
would be Tom Brown's incessant use of calling regular people outside
of the tracker community "Grey Masses". He often claims that after
death, they will wander aimlessly in the lesser spiritual veils,
forever seeking help. Now how's that for creating division?
Continuing on this point, has anyone else noticed how Tom demonizes
the logical mind? The spiritual mind is forever seen as the true and
clear mind whereas the critical mind, the logical mind is seen as
negative and must be silenced. In fact, in a cult, one is not allowed
to criticize nor doubt doctrine. Another fine paranoid behavior
caused by mental manipulation.
Lastly, another sign that a group is a cult is the presence of a guru
or a certain personality. Whether he be living or dead, he is always
omnipresent by his writings, his life story, or his portrait. The
disciples see the guru as a divine essence higher than other men.
Consider the legend of "Grandfather". Was his life not glorified
through Tom's books? In effect, Tom claims to have a picture of him,
but conveniently, it is out of focus. And where is Rick in all this?
Sadly, he died in a horseback riding accident, making Tom the sole
heir to Grandfather's teachings. And the ONLY authority on
Grandfather. Quite another convenient coincidence. Also, Grandfather
was portrayed as having senses much more acute than your average
human being. In fact, they say "he could hear a feather fall to the
ground from many miles away". Plus, Tom claims he healed a person
dying of cancer. Quite the accomplishments for a single man. Plus,
apparently, he also found "the truth" wandering on foot all over the
Americas. Can anyone truly reach this ideal? One can only hope to be
as good as the "Master".
I wonder if it truly was Grandfather that made such a journey or if
it was all Tom's vivid imagination. In any case, he's become filthy
rich at the expense of baby boomers and generation X's, not to
mention present-day hippies.
Points to consider.
All Good Medicine,
Akinamehete*
15088
I usually don't respond to posts like this because I just don't
care, but I
think you are severely mislead on this. And just so you know, I've never
been to one of his classes and am not talking out defensively here, I'll
just go paragraph by paragraph telling you what I think...
>A cult recruits people that are often searching for alternative ways to connect to spirit. Is there no more alternative way than to claim
that graduates of the school are "shamans"? Go to a regular Indian tribe and tell them you would like to become an Elder/Shaman. They
will laugh right at you. In fact, many if not all of the people coming to the school are said to be searching, and Tom reinforces
that "black sheep" attitude of how you never truly fit in. He magnifies the need for self-importance that people have individually.
Thus, the need to call his students "shamans", when in fact it
takes many years to become one, and cannot be done in an intensive week.
I've never once heard of Tom calling graduates a shaman. He does not even
want himself referred to as a shaman, let alone one of his weeklong
students.
>Also, a cult distinguishes itself by exploiting
its members. Financial exploitation is not something rare at the Tracker school.
Look at the astronomical prices for the given courses. $700-$800. Enlightenment doesn't come cheap. You're given a nice diploma with
your name on it. But let's not forget that you are now permitted to bear the title of "Shaman". Alas, you can't tell anyone about it,
hence raising a wall of secrecy between members and non-members of the cult.
Exploiting its members? Where else can you spend a one week vacation for
$700 with food provided and gain the lessons to be had at his classes? I
think it is well worth the price and in no way an exploitation. It's up to
you, if you want a week learning it's a fair price I'd say, if you don't
want it then don't go.
>Ever notice that when you're tired and exhausted at the end of the
week, Tom "offers" to let you join up for further classes that are held the coming week? Is a person's critical sense not weakened after
a long and, at often times, cold week sleeping outside in a tent? A cult is recognized for consciously weakening it's adherents through
physical pressures, making them thus malleable and open to suggestion.
Your third paragraph I just don't agree with. Comfort and energy level are
up to the individual, if you feel tired that's how you feel. I highly doubt
they purposely make you tired then throw more offers at you.
>In addition, a cult uses mental manipulation to control
its adepts. Some of these ways are: A vocabulary personally customized for the cult. For example, you have words like "Sacred Silence",
"Inner Vision", "Veilwalking".
The vocabulary you speak of is a way of teaching, to teach the student
lessons. Is not every word a small part of vocabulary? Do you think Tom
thought up "Sacred Silence" in order to get groupies? Or do you think
it's
a way to get across the meaning of what he is teaching, a way of
understanding? Is the sacred silence not a perfect name of the sacred
silence? What would you call it?
>It bears importance to mention that a cult also exhibits paranoid
behavior. The outside world is often seen as the enemy. And people are encouraged to adopt an "US vs Them" attitude. An example of
this would be Tom Brown's incessant use of calling regular people outside of the tracker community "Grey Masses". He often claims that after
death, they will wander aimlessly in the lesser spiritual veils, forever seeking help. Now how's that for creating division?
Paranoid behavior and Us vs. Them? Again I disagree. I get compassion for
all living things from his teachings, even other people. Ever heard of
"oneness"? I think that is self explanatory.
>Continuing on this point, has anyone else noticed how Tom demonizes
the logical mind? The spiritual mind is forever seen as the true and clear mind whereas the critical mind, the logical mind is seen as
negative and must be silenced. In fact, in a cult, one is not allowed to criticize nor doubt doctrine. Another fine paranoid behavior
caused by mental manipulation.
Criticize doctrine?? I think he says we must all find our own path and they
will all be different. Ever heard of the duality? Living in both the
physical and spiritual at all times? I don't think that demonizes either of
the two.
>Lastly, another sign that a group is a cult is the presence of a guru
or a certain personality. Whether he be living or dead, he is always omnipresent by his writings, his life story, or his portrait. The
disciples see the guru as a divine essence higher than other men. Consider the legend of "Grandfather". Was his life not glorified
through Tom's books? In effect, Tom claims to have a picture of him, but conveniently, it is out of focus. And where is Rick in all this?
Sadly, he died in a horseback riding accident, making Tom the sole heir to Grandfather's teachings. And the ONLY authority on
Grandfather. Quite another convenient coincidence. Also, Grandfather was portrayed as having senses much more acute then your average
human being. In fact, they say "he could hear a feather fall to the ground from many miles away". Plus, Tom claims he healed a person
dying of cancer. Quite the accomplishments for a single man. Plus, apparently, he also found "the truth" wandering on foot all over
the Americas. Can anyone truly reach this ideal? One can only hope to be as good as the "Master".
Does Tom not say no one is any different from Grandfather? That we can all
attain the same awareness level of Grandfather? I don't see him in any way
putting Grandfather on a pedestal above others. I just see a great amount
of thanksgiving for the lessons he received from the old man and he spends
his own life passing those lessons on. And if you want to believe that
Grandfather and Rick did not exist, then go for it. I doubt Tom would care. No
one can answer those questions except for yourself.
>I wonder if it truly was Grandfather that made such a journey or if
it was all Tom's vivid imagination. In any case, he's become filthy rich at the expense of baby boomers and generation X's, not to
mention present-day hippies.
I wonder if you would consider Christianity a cult? And would also love to
hear a definition of a "modern day hippie". I feel you wrote this will
good
intention and sincerity, but I simply don't agree. In no way do I see him
recruiting people or using them for his own well-being. And if I've been
used, then so be it as I've never been more aware of the world around me or
known better my place in it until I found his teachings. I fully believe he
teaches with good intention and am very thankful for what he has passed
down.
I'm not attacking you here, I simply disagree.
Take care, Craig
15091
Oh, good. The cult thread is back. ;)
I have to say that your definition of cult sounds a
lot like university life (the high cost of admittance,
the award of certificates, the "in-group" mentality
that's fostered, etc.).
You also forgot an important aspect of cult-building,
which is to throw in an end-of-the-world scenario,
where only the elect will flourish after "the others"
die off.
Suppose there IS a cult. What of it? Would that be so
wrong?
--John
15092
Oh good grief!
Tell me friend, where does a cult advocate free will and thought? How many
"cult" leaders ask you to prove them right or wrong?
If the Tracker school is such a cult, why do they let them leave? That, and
Tom ADVOCATES us to go out to different schools and learn what they have to
offer, try them out and see what works.
Okay, here we go with the price thing again. 700 bucks IS pricey, but have
you looked at schools like BOSS? They're almost TWICE as much.
Okay, so the school pushes for the other classes. Hell, if they offered
everything they had to offer, it would take a whole month to teach.
Something many of us don't have the luxury of time for.
This topic has been beaten to death before, and here we go again, with just
accusations and rumors.
Joe Schilling
15094
If you wrote a paper on cults than you must be right about
everything. Hope
you got an A on that paper.
I simply ask why you feel the need to rain on someone else's parade?
What if got back a bunch of e-mails saying you were right -
(which you are not) - How would you feel - would you add a postscript to your paper with a real
life example?
If you don't believe in what Tom Brown teaches then search
elsewhere.
Thats all I have to say about that.
Tricia Jackson
15095
I'm sure you checked around while researching your paper. You
know
what is out there. A GOOD CULT IS HARD TO FIND. So how about it? Join
us. Cumon you know you wanna. Just try it. All the cool people are
doing it. You can stop after one class. Just go for it. Your parents
won't find out.
15096
Hello John,
Actually, for information purposes, Tom Brown actually has a doomsday
prophecy/end of the world scenario. Read "the Quest" to find out
about it. And yes, the elect few who are "children of the Earth" will
flourish while "the others" die off.
Come to think of it, I hadn't thought about putting that one in my
argument, but thank you kindly for bringing this point to my
attention.
All Good Medicine,
Akinamehete*
15098
I don't want to dwell on this, I just want to make a type of
distinction.
A cult, according to Webster's, is "1. Attentive care; homage;
worship. 2. A system of religious belief and worship."
Meeting the qualifications that you listed to define a cult is not a
bad thing in itself.
The problem lies in the fact that the word "cult" has developed a bad
connotation due to the acts of others that met these same criteria.
This group might meet these criteria, but I agree with the others who
have posted when I say, "So What?"
15099
> Actually, for information purposes, Tom Brown
actually has a doomsday prophecy/end of the world scenario.
Oh great. Now all we need for a full-fledged doomsday
cult is if the prophecy has some kind of name, like
the Blue Seas prophecy, or the Green Fields prophecy! ;)
--John
15101
Hello John,
The question begs to have an answer doesn't it. If indeed Tom-Brownism
is a cult, the next question one should ask is if it is dangerous or
detrimental to its members.
By the way, the prophecy is called the "Red Skies Prophecy", or is
rather well known under that name. There can be no mistaking it.
Deprogrammer? No. But I would envision assisting at a cult awareness centre. After all, it probably could work with my domain of study.
All Good Medicine,
Akinamehete*
15102
Dear Akinamehete, by definition I suppose Tom Brown has become a cult
figure or sorts. Who knows, he might even be othe FBI list of cults.
Jehovah's Witnesses are, speaking of one form of Christianity. Somehow
the word CULT has taken on a bad name of late, and some of course are
just that. You are not wrong in your question. I've taken the Standard
Class with Tom and I must admit there were sensations of lot of what
you've said. BUT, as one observer has stated, "who really cares?" Not
all cults are BAD. There's tremendous GOOD in a lot of what Tom
teaches, and I for one would much prefer all our young people listen to
Tom than join a gang or become a neo-NSDAP member. Or worse.
I admire your courage for speaking your mind. That's what Tom teaches -
I for one adopt from Tom what I consider relevant, and discard the rest.
On the whole though, you won't find a a better or more dedicated team
than Tom fields and you can learn a tremendous amount from them. Just
keep an open mind, trust in yourself and study with more than one
school. I highly recommend Dr. Jim Halfpenny as a no nonsense
instructor. BALANCE is the key - and have fun tracking.
Wild Geese
15105
> the next question one should ask is if it is dangerous or detrimental to
its members.
Based on your observations, what do you think?
> Deprogrammer? No. But I would envision assisting at
a cult awareness centre. After all, it probably could work with my domain of study.
What is a cult awareness center? What is your domain of study?
--John
15106
> Oh, good. The cult thread is back. ;)
I have to say that your definition of cult sounds a lot like university life (the high cost of admittance,
the award of certificates, the "in-group" mentality that's fostered, etc.).
You also forgot an important aspect of cult-building, which is to throw in an end-of-the-world scenario,
where only the elect will flourish after "the others" die off.
Suppose there IS a cult. What of it? Would that be so wrong?
--John
I must agree John...the world must be a boring place to deal with this
topic again.
Having dealt with cults first as a college student in the early 70's
and later as an investigator I must take issue with much of what was
written. First, I have never seen any Tom Brown moonies passing out
tracts, sweeping the streets for converts, or trying to con rich
little old ladies. Having taken classes, I was never deprived of rest
as the Children of the Lamb, an early 70's Christian Cult, was very
good at doing. (I did a campus expose' on the them in '72.)
As for $700 plus for a week...no problem there. My wife and just
spent $2000 for five days at a nice hotel in San Diego. No meals I may
add. Does Tom Brown make a lot of money? I hope so. He has a staff, insurance, withholding, taxes, etc to consider. I've run a small
business and currently run an herbal school. The business failed...I
didn't make enough money after paying my staff, the overhead, and
taxes. Also, if you check out other "survival schools" Tom's cost per
student is very reasonable.
Did Grandfather exist...probably. I say that only because my
grandfather existed, passed on a great deal of learning to me about
spiritual and herbal healing, and passed away. Sadly, the last person
to remember is dead. I can't prove he existed. I may have a photo of
him somewhere, fairly sure I do, but it in itself proves nothing. If
memories serves, he looks like a little old hispanic man.
Eventually in any cult, staff or students turn away and write an
expose...or at the very least sue for some reason. Funny, I've met
some of the Tom's ex staff. No complaints except for the amount of
classes he has taught and put his instructors through.
Furthermore, cults crush all dissent.
I've heard Tom say, time and time again, "Prove me wrong!"
Is Tom a charismatic figure. You bet. Is there a point to it?
Probably. We live in a bombastic Steven Spielberg high tech effects
world. Some folks like a gentler effect in their teachers, some folks
NEED the Tom Brown style. As a cynic, ex-cop and combat vet, I know I
certainly did.
Finally a cult master maintains incredible control of his followers.
Well so far, no one from New Jersey has knocked on my door and told me
how to have sex with my wife or where to send my hard earned cash.
Lord almighty...he's never even solicited for the Tracker Christmas
Club!!! I suppose if Mattel came out with a Tom Brown action figure, (Humvee
not included) I might buy it. I could light a candle in front of it
and bow towards Tom's River three times a day...but I doubt that will
happen any time soon.
Did anyone hear the rumor he might record Tom Brown's Greatest hits?
Yessss all those favorites we've come to love, like "Honey", "Witchita
Lineman" "Do You Think I'm Sexy" and his duet with Willie Nelson,
"To
All The Girls..." Sorry, just had to throw that in :)
Chuck G.
15107
> I may have a photo of him somewhere, fairly sure I do, but it in itself proves nothing.
True. Also, the thing about the photo of Stalking Wolf
isn't that it was out of focus, but that it is only a
partial portrait. For the benefit of our new acolyte,
that photo was used by the artist in a drawing done
for the Reader's Digest version of The Tracker (Nov.
'77), which has been scanned and reproduced here:
http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Cabin/3067/index.html
--John
15108
As an interesting and ironic aside, William Jon
Watkins, who co-wrote "The Tracker", is a noted
science fiction writer, and Earl Norem, who did the
art for the Stalking Wolf picture for Reader's Digest,
is a noted sci-fi artist....
--John
15109
I took the standard this year, however, Tom was not there. Does he
really say that the grey masses will wander lost forever after death in
the lesser spiritual veils? I admire and appreciate the lessons Tom has
passed along, but if this is true I think I have reason to fear.
15110
> I took the standard this year, however, Tom was not
there. Does he really say that the grey masses will wander lost forever after death in
the lesser spiritual veils? I admire and appreciate the lessons Tom has passed along, but if this is true I think I have
reason to fear
No one at my standard in June said any such
thing.....nor have I ever read anything in Tom's books
that say that.......Me thinks someone is taking
"poetic" license with Tom's words....if not his words
then an "interpretation" of his words.
peace~
spiritpath
15111
It sounds to me like you have not read any of his books, only skimmed
through the pages looking for data. If indeed you did read them, it
seems very probable that you did so with a mind closed and locked so
tight that when you were done your hair momentarily flattened upon
your head as your brain took an enormous gasp for air.....
15112
If you have taken any of Tom's courses, and have any real affinity for
nature, and the most profound question you have is, "do you think it is a
cult?", I feel that you my friend have missed the fluency of an endless
fountain of knowledge.
Nighthawk
15113
Well I guess I could see where it would be easy for Tom to start a cult. Does
he do that? Not by any means. If you have been to any of his classes, you would
see that he is not looking for any followers. He pretty much lets you see that
he is a regular guy. He smokes ,had a drinking problem. He is not very
personable. He doesn't want you to believe him blindly. He will tell you that
you are a fool if you do.
15114
Akinamehete, I have considered your points and thank
you for your opinion.
By your arguments, every religion would be a cult, as
would many social clubs. So in a way, Yes, the
Trackers are a cult. We are a community, brought
together by a series of books by a man from Jersey and
held together by common interests in primitive skills
and Native American spirituality. Is that necessarily a
bad thing?
I think the argument you were making is that the
Trackers are a destructive cult. On that point, you
are wrong. The Trackers, as a community, do not meet
one of the necessary criteria. Destructive cults
require the members to leave their families, friends
and jobs to serve the guru in an isolated compound
where the leaders can exert total control over the
lives of the devotees. Instead, we each are encouraged
to go to our homes and live our lives, to not quit our
jobs the Monday after finishing the Standard, practice
what we have been taught, learn more from anyone who
is willing to teach, and teach anyone who is willing
to learn. Trackers do not get the luxury of isolation,
nor do we have the luxury of someone controlling our daily lives. Our only contact with the group is these
e-communities and clubs that meet anywhere from
monthly to twice per year.
Now I have a couple of questions:
What is your interest in primitive skills or Native
Spirituality?
How long have you been a member of our community? What brought you here?
Did you get a good grade on the paper, or are we your
research?
Or are you here to save us from ourselves and the
evils of an old Piney who gets $700 a head to teach
Babyboomers, Gen Xers and modern day hippies the joys
of living in the woods???
Kristi Magdellae
15115
Well if your green field, blue water or red sky is commin' I need a
leader. Someone to tell me what to do. I don't want to wander
spiritually in the lesser veils. I'm quitting my job, leaving my
family and moving to Jersey. I'm sure Tom will be happy to see another
person show up on his doorstep to be a follower of the Tominator.
This threat is cracking me up!!!!!
15117
Dear Akinamehete-
Your questioning is good. Everyone should question authority,
situations, issues in order to get at the truth. Truth is often
disguised, hidden or temporarily unavailable to a seeker.
I would start with defining the word 'cult'. These definitions
are often created from a situation, which is unique and may not
have identical comparisons. Just as food can be an apple or a can
of beans. Very different, but yet, both fit the definition of food.
As you stated in your first post on the subject, "(if any of you)
feel as I do that some aspects of the Tracker school are cult like."
Yes, some aspects may be cult like. Which is not to say it is in
fact a true cult.
While not having enough experience in the real world to effectively
argue one side or the other, let me add only this. Never give your
mind, your heart or your soul over to anyone. Listen, learn and
act according to your highest reasoning and instinct. When those
two are in total agreement, the heart will follow true. A cult belief? Perhaps.
Bright Star
15118
Other things that might be consider a cult under this definition:
Citizenship in the U.S. The process of human mating and marriage,
especially marriage. The home shopping network (take your pick of which
one). Getting a new car. Sports teams and their fans.
My point is that what we're really defining here is the process by which
humans identify with and relate to any group or "clique," of other
humans
that is a well-defined group with its own internal cohesion. The process of
high school is a cult. Or college. ...
Mark Baxter
15119
Tom definitely said in one of his books that all people reach the spiritual
world, the one quirk is that the people who did not walk the duality in human
life do not see people walking the duality, I think tom said this in The
Journey?
good medicine
Ansel
15120
eeeegads
that sneaky sob done snuck up on me and tricked me.
WHAT MUST I DO TO REDEEM MYSELF ?????????
ok, as of today:
no more bow drill, hand drill, etc (sacred fire god)
no more tracking......obviously evil
no more time in the woods with my kids. we will spend QUALITY time in front
of the TV
no more pottery. dirt is DIRTY after all
No more flintknapping (please return all you bottles to the ditches where
they belong)
Mud baths will be limited to that which comes in the $5 little jars
Food will be limited to that which has been genetically engineered to taste
best and are best for me
No more hugs for those brothers and sisters I have not seen for a long time
(might get a disease or be considered sexual harassment anyway)
I must resolve myself to believe ONLY that which is published through the
local media
I must NOT interfere with "Natural" evolution
I will attend an organized "Church" so the Creator (ooops my bad) GOD
will
hear my prayers after the preacher approved (I heard he only works sundays)
I WILL BE GOOD< I WILL BE GOOD < I WILL BE GOOD.
Pray for me (if that is OK to do)
E
15122
> Thus, the need to call his students "shamans", when in fact
it takes many years to become one, and cannot be done in an intensive week.
I understand the argument here, but remember that Tom's definition of a
shaman is different. He says a shaman is one who has transcended all religions and dogmas. The Native American context is more of an
"elder" term that does take many years to truly deserve. But from your comments below,
redefining the word will only support one of your later points!
> Look at the astronomical prices for the given courses. $700-$800.
Enlightenment doesn't come cheap.
Sigh...here we go again! I believe somewhere on the internet is an
archive of some of the first messages to the Trackers list, before it went Yahoo.
There's a good discussion on the school's fees that you might want to check out.
> Ever notice that when you're tired and
exhausted at the end of the week, Tom "offers" to let you join up for further
classes
that are held the coming week? Is a person's critical sense not weakened after a long and, at often times, cold week sleeping outside in a tent?
I would say the mind is more expanded and at peace than normal. I've
always found that the tenting and nature thing clears my mind.
> In addition, a cult uses mental manipulation to control it's adepts.
Some of these ways are: A vocabulary personally customized for the cult. For example, you have words like "Sacred Silence",
"Inner Vision", "Veilwalking".
How else to describe these concepts that society has no terms for?
> And the ONLY authority on Grandfather. Quite another convenient coincidence. Also, Grandfather
was portrayed as having senses much more acute then your average human being. Plus, Tom claims he healed a person
dying of cancer.
Tom says in all of his courses, "If you believe what I say then you
are a fool. Your job is not to believe me, but to prove me right or prove me
wrong.
" No request for blind faith. No need to accumulate
"followers." More of
a "here's the message, do what you will with it."
And it all comes down to one word: results. Have you tried the things he says? Have you had amazing "coincidences" fill your life? Have
you felt
the change that your heart undergoes when you put these skills into practice?
Have you even made a magical fire by rubbing 2 sticks together? I can't claim to be the best-practiced person in these skills, but what I have done
WORKS!
I went through this same argument several years ago. What if Tom is a
fraud?
What is it's all made up? What if he's just stealing our money by taking advantage of our searching? What if I found out tomorrow that Grandfather
is fiction and Tom is a fake? My conclusion:It wouldn't matter. What I've found has
enriched my life beyond any words or description I can even attempt. I would continue practicing the skills and working to attain
a closeness with nature because it brings great joy and peace and
satisfaction to my life. Plus in my own studies I have found plenty of other sources
that say many of the same things.
I honor your questioning, friend, and I hope you keep searching and asking questions of this school and of yourself. It's a good soul-searching for
all of us here.
Clydester2
15126
I have been reading just some of the posts about the trackers
being a cult.
This upsets me very much. It seems to me that not too long ago we went
through some other charges that this was a cult.
The Tracker School is just that, a school. It is not there to changes our
lives to live in only one way. It is there to help us to learn to live a
better way within the lives that we were living before we took any of the
classes.
I should not say "before we" as I have never taken a class I am sorry
to say.
I have read all of the books many times over and taken primitive archaeology
classes and primitive living classes but none of TBJs.
A cult is a way of life that keeps its members from contact with the rest of
the world. Only the way of the cult is correct and to have contact with
others is wrong. I do not remember ever reading that we were to avoid the
outside world.
We are not a group like those of David Koresh or Jones in Guyana. We keep our
families, our religious beliefs, and our jobs and our homes. All we do is
learn a better way. For some it was always a way of life and we just learned
to expand what we already knew and believed.
No one is forcing us to do anything. The lessons and the instructors are
there for us if we want it. All of us who did take classes saved and paid
for them. We wanted to learn and asked for it. No one sought us out and said
it is this way or none and we are all "damned" if we do not do things
in a
certain way.
Here I go again opening my mouth. If I offended someone I am sorry, but I do
not like having people being accused of being an a cult leader when they are
not. The Native American way is not a cult. IT IS A WAY OF LIFE THAT OTHERS
ARE NOW SEEING AS A GOOD WAY TO LIVE.
Katoni
15127
hmmm..."cult"..."culture"...maybe we HAVE been unwittingly
misled, but since
it is to unconditionally love other folks and pass on empowering, life
altering tools that also happen to increase empathy and a sense of freedom,
so be it. Or maybe it has something to do with yogurt...hmmm....CULTure.
15129
Here we go again - ain't we got fun - Websters says "a CULT - (1)a
system of religious worship - (2) devoted attachment to a person,
principle, etc." It makes no mention of good or bad.
Certainly many on this forum, who have admittedly read and re-read all
of Tom's books many times sound attached, if not devoted to, at least
his principles if not him. Having taken his Standard Class I must admit
myself, that once beyond the "nuts and bolts" of primitive survival
skills and tracking, his philosophy courses certainly take on a form of
devotion to principles, to say nothing of preparing for the end of the
world as we know it, etc.
But, back to Webster, there's no mention of forsaking family, friends, way or life, freedom of thought, etc. I'm afraid we've let the media and
public opinion mislead us in what a CULT really is.
TBR teaches an approach to life that ain't half bad. Does he make money
from his teachings? Well, his schools operate at least 21 weeks out of
the year and each class averages at least 100 students (Ours had 160
students). Each class costs a student between $700 and $800. These
numbers reveal a total annual gross of around $1,740,000. Tom has five
paid instructors, plus administrators, etc. There's also insurances and
the cost of "trackers stew". If you add the sale of his books and TBJ
school related products, plus his fees for aiding law enforcement,
movie script writing and technical advice, etc., I'd say Tom manages to
scrape along. More power to him.
Wild Geese
15131
Cult Awareness Centre!!! Those guys are CRAZY!!! Not only do
they brainwash
you into disbelieving and fearing the tools that could rip one out of the
ruts of mediocrity, they use logic to herd you in as one of the nine to five
sheeple! GET OUT MAN, WHILE YOU STILL CAN! Take the free Nikes, but don't
go for the "comit" line, the bus is a lot safer.
Toodles,
Mike in Augusta
15133
Akinamehete~
I personally could care less if any of Tom's stories
are true or not.....they contain lessons just the
same....probably different lessons for each of us
depending on where along our individual paths we are
at the time we read them.
Tom NEVER asked me to turn over my
house/car/belongs/money (other than the tuition I
CHOSE to pay of my own free will). I contacted his
school, no one from his school approached me to
attend. In fact, I waited, due to my life's
circumstances, 23 long years to attend Tom's school. I
read my first Tom Brown book in 1978.
Tom would be extremely angry if he thought any of us
were in any way worshipping him, or making him out to
be anything other than a very knowledgeable person who
was lucky enough to have a teacher (Grandfather) so
closely connected to our past, more "primitive" life
(that term floors me....primitive, as I know it is
MUCH more gentle and much more honest than what we
deal with daily now).
I do hope you find enough information on cults to get
a very good grade on your paper, but I really think
you have gotten Tom's school and the people here
confused with someone else. Should you insist on
continuing to try to make Tom and his students out to
be anything but a well admired teacher and students,
then it is your choice.
As to whether or not Tom makes money, has become rich
because of his school and his teaching.....I DAMN WELL
HOPE SO. He is intelligent and capable and gives me
more than my money's worth when I go to his school and
if he makes a BILLION dollars I really don't care. (by-the-way, Tom wasn't even at the school when I
got to go but I absolutely LOVED it and his
instructors were great teachers)
peace to you and I will pray for you to get an A+ on your paper
~spiritpath
15134
Hello
I am not really interested in proving if the Tracker Family is a
cult or not but I read in one of the messages that Tom had a drinking
problem and is also a chain smoker. Now i find that, not so hard to
believe because we are all human but disappointing. How can he fully
enjoy the smell of flowers and the wind if he constantly smokes tobacco. After reading so many of his books
I find him to be very
hypocritical with the info I just found out. This does not mean that
I am not going to practice all the survival skills and attend his
class in the summer but it puts everything in a totally different
perspective. Can anyone try and explain this to me?
Peter T
15135
> After reading so many of his books I find him to be very
hypocritical with the info I just found out
How can it be hypocritical, when no claim is ever made that a tracker
should never smoke, etc etc??
Mebbe what you mean is that some expectations are rattled .... which
all of us have (expectations/assumptions, etc that is)........but as I get
more grey hair I find that I miss out on a lot more than a few floral scents
due to my own tunnel-visioned expectations.
jh
15136
Thank u JH for answering to my letter but it still doesn't answer
my real question. I am young (19) and i know that life isn't easy but
after reading all of his books i would have never thought that the
society would be able to get to him too. How can he really enjoy the
beauty of nature( meaning the smell of everything around him) he
writes so much about when all he is really capable of smelling is
tobacco?? What about his drinking problem. I would have never
thought that he of all the people would have a problem like that. He
was able to survive one year without anything in the woods which
requires not only the perfection of survival skills but also strong
will yet he gave in so easily to the addiction of alcohol and
tobacco. It could have been his choice of course but why would it
be?? He possess the knowledge that is priceless, and one day i hope
to know the things that he does. Maybe its hard for me to understand
that because for me he was a role model. I wanna live the way he
lived in the woods and i am willing to sacrifice my time and
everything else just to look at the woods and understand them the way
he does.
Peter T.
15137
> How can he fully enjoy the smell of flowers and the wind if he
constantly smokes tobacco. After reading so many of his books i find him to be very
hypocritical with the info i just found out. This does not mean that I am not going to practice all the survival skills
and attend his class in the summer but it puts everything in a totally different
perspective. Can anyone try and explain this to me?
It is Tom's business. Doesn't negate what he has to
teach, nor does it make him a hypocrite.....he doesn't
try to get his students to smoke. When I first began
to look into going to Tom's school, one of the rules
was.....NO SMOKING, so somewhere in the past Tom must
have quit or at least tried. All the same, it is still
his business, and not my place to tell him he is not
able to fully enjoy his sense of smell because of
it....bet his is better than yours if for no other
reason than that he is more aware, unless you are more
aware than I was or am prior to attending the school.
I wish no one in the world smoked.....including me,
but that doesn't make me a hypocrite, only makes me a
person addicted to nicotine even though I KNOW its bad
for me. I cant walk in Tom's shoes to know how or why
he smokes.....I can only walk mine. I wont judge
Tom....not my place.
peace~
spiritpath
15139
Dear Spiritpath
Please don't get me wrong! I am not trying to judge anyone,
especially Tom Brown. Its just very confusing to me!!
Peter
15141
Hey Peter, you're confused by spiritpath's reply with Tom smoking. How's
this, he's HUMAN! Just because he's done these things and everything, he
does have his Achilles heel, and smoking is one of them.
Think about it. A huge school, where you have to try to get in as many
students in to pay the insurance premium, and secondly and I'm going to get
mystical on you. If you were able to sense and feel what's going on in the
world on a large scale, you'd probably take up something other than smoking.
He'd probably be able to quit if he wasn't living in society, and knowing
how much he hates being in society, well you can see why.
That, and look up how hard it is to actually quit smoking. Heroin addicts
has an easy time quitting the habit than smokers. More to come. ;-}
Joe Schilling
15142
Maybe I am making a big deal out of this but for me he was like an
elder. One to seek wisdom from!!
Peter
15145
>Maybe I am making a big deal out of this but for me he was like an
elder. One to seek wisdom from!!
You can still seek wisdom, as I said, living in society, New Jersey
of all
places, kinda makes one a bit rough around the edges. As Tom mentioned in
his classes, he's not a guru, nor ever wants to be. He doesn't want to be
viewed as a grey haired buddah sitting on a rock staring at his navel lint
looking for answers. ;-}
Those types are few now a days, those that exist live in remote reigns where
they don't have to deal with the mad rush of society. Toms Vision and
purpose is to teach, to get into the thick of society and reach as many as
he can, and because of that he's been cut deeply many times. Its many many
here call the razors edge, and many of us has cuts and scars from trying to
walk that line. It's not fun, but very rewarding to reach someone.
Don't look at the man for what he is, but for what he has to teach. A coyote
teacher is never what they seem.
Joe Schilling
15148
> Each class costs a student between $700 and $800. These
numbers reveal a total annual gross of around $1,740,000. Tom has
five paid instructors, plus administrators, etc. There's also insurances
and the cost of "trackers stew". If you add the sale of his books and
TBJ school related products, plus his fees for aiding law enforcement, movie script writing and technical advice, etc., I'd say Tom manages
to scrape along. More power to him.
I hate to disabuse anyone, but in business 1 million plus is chicken
feed. And at my last Tom Brown outing I think he was using chicken
feed (millet) for breakfast.
The insurance cost is the killer, plus taxes and with-holding. Tom
Brown is not missing many meals, but he's hardly rolling in wealth.
And even if he was...so be it. He hasn't conned any little old ladies
that I know off.
I would drink his cool-aid any day.
Chuck G.
15149
> I am not really interested in proving if the Tracker Family is
a cult or not but I read in one of the messages that Tom had a
drinking problem and is also a chain smoker. Now i find that, not so hard to believe because we are all human but
disappointing. How can he
fully enjoy the smell of flowers and the wind if he constantly smokes tobacco. After reading so many of his books i find him to be very
hypocritical with the info i just found out. This does not mean that I am not going to practice all the survival skills and attend his
class in the summer but it puts everything in a totally different perspective. Can anyone try and explain this to me?
This may hurt Peter, but TBjr is a human being. Very fallible. He
smokes like a fiend. I heard he beat his drinking problem years ago.
He is not the most sociable man in the world either.
But does that make him a hypocrite? Hardly.
As an herbalist and herbal teacher, my students find it difficult to
accept I like a good hamburger burned on my grill. Also, I go to a
doctor on occasion. Physician heal thyself! I also teach meat in
moderation and herbal health awareness. I don't think that makes me a
hypocrite.
I like TB's teaching specifically because he is human and fallible.
He is not Jesus or the Bhudda. He's just an old Piney with great
skills and good heart. Cut him so slack. Be gentle with yourself also.
Best wishes
Chuck Garcia
15151
Hi Peter T,
I used to think some similar things as yourself when I first heard of Tom
smoking, the drinking thing I never heard of until the current cult thread
on this list. I was taken back by what I heard but when I gave it some
thought realized I only cared because I had my own vision of what Tom would
be like. I guess I wanted a perfect teacher, and that's what I chose Tom to
be for me.
Then I hear he has a humvee and is a chainsmoker.... "that's not what
someone who is one with all would be like" I thought to myself. He wouldn't
be just another one of the sleeping people speeding by on the freeway, and
let alone that but in one of the nicest vehicles on the freeway! But then
you realize there isn't much more than the freeway to get you all across the
country to help on tracking cases and meet students or whatever, so he has
to be in there sometime. But here's the thing, even when he is driving he's
still aware. And that's it right there, awareness. Regardless of what he's
doing he is still aware, just as we all can be.
He makes no claims to be perfect, just as he does not claim to be a shaman
or guru of any sort. It's only us that put him on the pedestal we want him
to be on because we want him to be perfect. We don't want to aspire to
attain goals that someone has reached or "be" someone for lack of a
better
word who has traits undesirable to ourselves, we want ourselves to be
perfect you know? But it all doesn't matter really, he is just as human as
you or I. I never had a cigarette or drank alcohol in my life until I was
19, and from the first day I did I was on a downward spiral for a few years.
I remember the anger I would get when I saw someone flick a butt out their
car window, but there I was doing the same thing at one point. I don't do
any of that anymore and it still angers me to see those things, but I was
part of it at one time. As perfect as I want my own life to be I had a
severe setback. But I learned from it, and that's what matters in the end.
Any failure is a success if you learn from it which is one of the many
lessons I have gained from Tom's books. So maybe just take his teachings
for what they are and wait until you meet him to see what you think, that's
where I'm at. I love his teachings and am thankful everyday that the
lessons I have learned from them have been brought into my life. And that's
all that matters to me, I can't conclude anything about a person I've never
met simply by what I hear of their past and through their books. I can draw
conclusions about their lessons, but not about them. And heck, maybe Tom
smoking has taught me one of the greatest lessons of all, that every person
on this planet IS just a human.
Hope I didn't confuse you more, take care.
Craig
15157
Peter, he is an elder, and a very good teacher. But he
is also human. Maybe it is because you are still
young, you were looking for a hero. That is one of the
hard lessons of adulthood: All of the Heros are also
very human, and have human failings. We all have
failings. Mine is Food, especially sweets. Tom Brown's
are his ciggies. The lesson here is that even the
wisest elder is human, with human failings, and should
not be put on a pedestal, because anyone on a pedestal will fall.
Kristi Magdellae
15160
I have met thousands of people in my life, having traveled and hung
out quite a bit in the music world, business world, etc and so on.
I have to tell you that although I in no way condone the use of drugs
or alchohol for anyone, I have seen many people who think more soberly
completely intoxicated than many people who are drug free. Simply
because they are at that level, and maybe because their bodies can
flush out toxins faster and more efficiently than others can.
Some people practically go into shock if they drink alcohol. Some
cold die of asthmatic attacks if just one puff of tobacco smoke comes
their way. We are all different, and no one knows what I have been
through, no matter how many books I write. I don't know exactly what
anyone else has experienced no matter how empathic I might be, so how
can I judge their life's course?
Sure, you have to say what you want in your life. You have the right
to choose who will teach you and what you are willing to learn from
others. That is your right and it takes some judgment. But that is
different from saying unless a person is perfect they have no right to
be placed in a position where they share what they know with others."
During the seventies, some world renown Indian Gurus were put down
because they were sleeping with young women. Americans thought it
was the worst kind of betrayal to the teachings and at least one of
those gurus was asked to leave the country. But, come to find out, in
India, families wait in line for this to happen to their daughters.
Oh my God! What! Yes, Indian families know that every thing is
connected, the spirit that moves through all things and that if their
daughter was lucky enough to join with a spiritual master in that way,
she would be blessed most completely and so would they.
Native Americans feel that tobacco is a holy gift from the Creator.
Maybe Tom just likes receiving that form of holiness a lot.
There are many ways to tell a story, young trackers.
Bright Star
15162
Yes, deer runner. And I would add that perfection is not always the best
model for seeking wisdom through. If someone puts themselves out of reach
by being perfect, not smoking, not drinking, not ... whatever ... then they
are harder to attain rapport with. I'd rather learn from someone with a few
vices and human qualities than from an icon; icons make me twitchy.
15167
I want to thank everyone who answered my question and all of you
are
right. I did make a mistake by imagining Tom to be this perfect guy
who knows how to survive and possesses all the skills that seemed to
be almost supernatural. And I did not mean to judge him, it was just
hard to believe! Thank u
Peter
15169
> Please don't get me wrong! I am not trying to
judge anyone, especially Tom Brown. Its just very confusing to me!!
What's the confusing part? One thing he made a point
of when I took the Standard was that "The Tracker" --
the guy in those books -- is DEAD. He put all that
behind him when he decided to devote himself to
running the school, teaching and writing.
John
15170
> Maybe i am making a big deal out of this but for me
he was like an elder. One to seek wisdom from!!
Maybe it's your idea of wisdom that needs work. ;)
There was a Joseph Campbell story where he was talking
to a young co-ed who told him that she and her peers
were more advanced than Campbell's generation, because
they already had achieved wisdom, and Campbell's
response was, "That's fine. All you've missed is
life!"
Meaning, you'll just have to get your wisdom the hard way! ;)
Meanwhile, you can get training and good counsel from
a variety of sources, one or two of whom might not
meet your ideal of a perfect being.
--John
15171
>I want to thank everyone who answered my question and all of you are
right. I did make a mistake by imagining Tom to be this perfect guy who knows how to survive and
possesses all the skills that seemed to be almost supernatural. And I did not mean to judge him, it was just
hard to believe! Thank u
LOL!! It's a good thing we told you the truth before you went to your first
class, you would've been shocked and disapointed. Tom never said he was
perfect, if anything he's very critical of himself. Even he says he'll never
be on the same level as Grandfather, but then Grandfather did have to expose
himself to society.
Joe Schilling
15181
Peter
Since I am the one that brought all of that up, I should elaborate more
on why I said it. Don't be put off by it. No he is not hypocritical. He is just
a real person. Well almost. Don't let the thought of Tom's faults make you
think less about going to your standard. The man is definitely knowledgeable and I
guarantee that he will keep your attention. He won't wear any Native American
garb. He will tell you flat out that he don't give a damn if you like him or
not. He wants you to walk away with more knowledge and spirit toward nature and
the living there in than you ever thought possible. I guarantee you will. When
I went to mine I had already been into primitive skills for a while. I had
already made bows and buckskin and done all that kind of stuff. Still even then
there was a lot of stuff that I didn't know. I thought I knew it all. The stuff
that he will teach in tracking is amazing. He will start you on the path of
awareness. That is what I am working on now. He kinda gave us the ball and left
it up to us on what to do with it. You will not leave the same as you came. He
is a GREAT teacher, and that is an exceptional class. Don't go there to meet
Tom Brown the celebrity or some kind of god. Think of him as a world renowned professor
that is gonna teach you how to see nature in a whole different way.
Take what he teaches you and try to prove him wrong. Good luck because I
haven't yet and I have been trying for 2 years. Hey! Even superman had kryptonite.
(and I don't get the deal with dis'n Loise Lane, but that is whole other thread)
Hub
15190
deprivation and suffering are good for the soul - poor Tom.
Wild Geese
15248
> I wonder if it truly was Grandfather that made such a journey or if it was all Tom's vivid imagination. In any case, he's become filthy
rich at the expense of baby boomers and generation X's, not to mention present-day hippies.
As to the statement that tbj's students "get to" refer to themselves
as "shaman"? well, having sent two of my children through, and several
of my
friends to, tbj, to learn, this is the first that i've heard of this one,
except for comments along those lines from "fundies" and so called
"guardians
of the old ways", who object (insanely) to tbj's teaching old ways to non-indians.
As to the "fundies"? they object to everything, they need to get a
sense of humor, etc, i've said this before, ad nauseum..........
as to the comment, regards "shaman"? to keep it brief (mommacat wants
me in the next room) it's a tungistk (sp?) term, siberian, native american
healers have separate terms for each type of practitioner, and the catch all
term, "shaman", just doesn't apply, except, perhaps, for nuagers (who
mislabel and re-label everything).
and regards the "guardians of the old"? poorly informed individuals
who forget that we all share a common history, that all the nations of man,
once shared certain characteristics. that we all once possessed this
knowledge, that we were all once "children of the earth".
none of the things that tbj teaches are TOTALLY unique only to one
portion of the earth's population, we all once had that knowledge, some of
the people just wandered further away from it than others.
if this were truly a cult, we wouldn't be able to have annual
discussions of this sort, where we share an open forum into the nature of our
teacher, and the things which he ASKS of us, and deerrunner and i wouldn't
have such fun chomping on someone's leg, for asking such an insulting, and
ill informed question.
Meta Tantay,
StormWolf
15254
Sorry about this late reply, but I was slammed by AOL twice and loss
by internet access for 11 days.
Many of the 1400 messages I have had to sort through deal with talk
about whether the Tracker movement, Red Sky Prophecy, etc. is a cult.
This has been responded too much better than I could.
When I read that 19 year old Peter T. is disillusioned by reading
that TBJ smokes or had a drinking problem, I felt I had to reply.
Peter, TBJ may have had an extraordinary teacher, but have your
attempted to appreciate the stress of his path. Life is tough. A
divorce can be a killer. His life could have been less stressful if
he had ignored his vision (if that is possible) AND RUN TO THE HILLS.
I have never met TBJ and will make no excuses for him, he needs none.
Neither smoking nor drink diminishes his message. His efforts to
transmit what he learned from Grandfather and his experiences are
more important than the man.
Tom E
15327
> Neither smoking nor drink diminishes his message. His efforts to
transmit what he learned from Grandfather and his experiences are more important than the man.
as i've said about others who bear messages, or teachings, let us
concern ourselves only with the message/teaching, the person who brings it to
us may, or may not be a good person, but that does not affect the validity of
the message.
as to tbj's quirks, it just makes him sound like another interesting
curmudgeon, a man of good heart, in a difficult position.
Meta Tantay,
StormWolf
|
